From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Thu Feb 1 16:54:02 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id QAA12409 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 16:53:56 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: plkilroy@pop700.gsfc.nasa.gov Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 17:53:25 -0500 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: Pat Kilroy Subject: [tacgps] NASA Jobs Cc: sarex@amsat.org, tacgps@lists.tapr.org, rlindquist@arrl.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20010201173635.00a47e80@pop700.gsfc.nasa.gov> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk FYI At this morning's Center-wide "All Hands Meeting" it was announced that the hiring freeze at NASA Goddard will end soon. GSFC anticipates "about 300 new hires this year" of engineers and scientists with "about half of them to come in as [university] 'fresh outs'". Please pass this on. For mission-oriented prospects who'd like a picture of the types of cool work we do here then check out these web sites ... How NASA GSFC is organized http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/gsfc/org/org.htm Our Applied Engineering & Technology Directorate http://aetd.gsfc.nasa.gov/ Our Electrical Systems Center http://aetd.gsfc.nasa.gov/centers/es.html and http://esc.gsfc.nasa.gov/index.htm Some of our customers http://esc.gsfc.nasa.gov/projects_customers.htm GSFC Products & Services Lookup http://this.gsfc.nasa.gov/pns/ NASA Jobs http://www.nasajobs.gov Contact the people listed at these sites. I'm not an OHR person so please refrain from contacting me. Good luck! 73 de Pat N8PK ===================================================================== Patrick L. Kilroy WK Integration & Test Lead Engineer PHONE: 301-286-1984 NASA Goddard Space Flight Center FAX: 301-286-1673 Building 5, Mail Code 568 E-MAIL: pat.kilroy@gsfc.nasa.gov Greenbelt, Maryland 20771 WEB: http://simsat.gsfc.nasa.gov ===================================================================== --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Thu Feb 1 16:57:39 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id QAA13042 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 16:57:34 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: plkilroy@pop700.gsfc.nasa.gov Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 17:56:44 -0500 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: Pat Kilroy Subject: [tacgps] Re: NASA Jobs > Update to URL Cc: sarex@amsat.org, tacgps@lists.tapr.org, rlindquist@arrl.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20010201175501.00a62db0@pop700.gsfc.nasa.gov> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Oops. Sorry, that last URL should be NASA Jobs http://www.nasajobs.nasa.gov/ -PK --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sat Feb 10 14:57:07 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id OAA04534 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:57:05 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:56:17 -0500 From: "Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI)" Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] GPS Antennas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <3A85AAF1.479EE994@clark.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Those of you who have an interest in precision GPS antennas might find a paper by Schupler & Clark in the Feb.2001 GPS World, pages 48-55 of interest. [In fact, you MUST find it of interest, since I'm one of the authors.] 73, Tom --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sat Feb 10 19:16:56 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id TAA28597 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 19:16:44 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 20:10:33 -0500 From: John Ackermann N8UR To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" cc: tapr-bb@lists.tapr.org, aprssig@lists.tapr.org, netsig@lists.tapr.org, bbssig@lists.tapr.org, picsig@lists.tapr.org, hfsig@lists.tapr.org, tacgps@lists.tapr.org, tapr-org@lists.tapr.org, htaprs@lists.tapr.org Subject: [tacgps] TAPR Press Release Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <2583289652.981835833@[192.168.1.15]> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE February 10, 2001 TAPR APPOINTS NEW DIRECTORS, SECRETARY Steve Stroh, N8GNJ, and Byon Garribrant, N6BG, have been appointed to the TAPR Board of Directors, and Guy Story, KC5GOI, has been appointed the organization's Secretary. Steve Stroh is a long time member of TAPR. He lives in Woodinville, Washington, a suburb of Seattle, where he is a member of the Puget Sound Amateur Radio TCP/IP Group (also known as WetNET, the Washington Experimenter's TCP/IP Group) and MicroHAMs, the Microsoft Amateur Radio Club. Steve's major interests in Amateur Radio are digital modes and advanced wireless networking. Steve has been the manager of TAPR's "NetSig" special interest group for several years, and has also been active in TAPR's spread spectrum SIG. Steve was recently named Digital Editor for CQ Amateur Radio Magazine and writes CQ's monthly Digital Wireless column. Professionally, he is a full-time Independent Technology Writer, focusing on Broadband Wireless Internet Access. Steve will fill the remaining Board term of Greg Jones, WD5IVD, who previously announced his desire to resign from his TAPR offices after many years of service. Byon Garribrant has been active in packet radio and transmitter hunting since he was licensed in 1990. He served as the Digital Communications Officer for Orange County RACES for 5 years, maintaining the group's packet BBS, and organizing digital communication exercises using packet message-passing software he created. In 1998, Byon began actively working with TAPR as a member of the PIC-E design team, and published the firmware used in the PIC-E. He has also given presentations at the last three Digital Communication Conferences on PIC programming. Byon has created several PIC-based amateur radio devices, including the GST-1 and GST-2, which allow GPSs to be used with APRS, the TinyTrak, an inexpensive TNC replacement for an APRS tracker, and PicCon, a transmitter controller for T-Hunting. He sells these devices as kits from his home business, Byonics. He lives in Las Vegas, Nevada, with his wife, Lara, KD6AYO, and three children and works as a computer game programmer for Westwood Studios. Byon will fill the remaining Board term of Barry McLarnon, VE3JF, who served TAPR as a Director and volunteer for many years. TAPR will miss Barry's technical knowledge and true ham spirit. Guy Story was first licensed in 1994 and has been an active packet radio user since his first day as a ham. He operated a TCP/IP station using JNOS before becoming active in APRS in early 1997, when he also joined TAPR. As a TAPR member, he has been actively involved in the organization's APRS and spread spectrum activities. Guy is also the APRS Chairman and repeater control operator for the Denton County Amateur Radio Association and is an assistant emergency coordinator for Denton County ARES. Guy lives in Denton, Texas and is an Electronics Technician in the area of EMC/EMI compliance for Interphase Corporation in Dallas. Guy takes over as Secretary from Bob Hansen, N2GDE, who continues as a Director and as Editor of the Packet Status Register, TAPR's quarterly journal. About TAPR TAPR (officially, Tucson Amateur Packet Radio, Inc.) is a non-profit research and development corporation dedicated to advancing amateur radio through digital technology. It focuses on development of hardware and software tools that enable ham radio operators to explore leading edge technologies. Despite its name, TAPR is an international organization with over 2000 members worldwide. Contact information: Telephone: (940) 383-0000 Email: tapr@tapr.org Web: http://www.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sat Feb 10 19:38:26 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id TAA01498 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 19:38:19 -0600 (CST) Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on garnet.sover.net) office-pc from arc2a128.bf.sover.net [209.198.81.66] 209.198.81.66 Sat, 10 Feb 2001 20:37:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: "Ira A. Wilner" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS Antennas Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 20:36:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <000801c093cb$4dd012e0$4251c6d1@office-pc> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Hi Tom, I read the article the other day and was going to ask you if you had the opportunity to test any of your pie pan antennas in that test chamber? Also, since then there have been a couple of new antennas on the market that claim to work better while being smaller and lighter than those older choke ring designs. --Ira ////////////////////////////////// -----Original Message----- From: Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI) To: TAPR Special Interest Group Date: Saturday, February 10, 2001 8:13 PM Subject: [tacgps] GPS Antennas >Those of you who have an interest in precision GPS antennas might find a >paper by Schupler & Clark in the Feb.2001 GPS World, pages 48-55 of >interest. [In fact, you MUST find it of interest, since I'm one of the >authors.] > >73, Tom --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sat Feb 10 21:29:13 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id VAA11392 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 21:29:08 -0600 (CST) Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Message-ID: Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 21:29:39 -0600 From: Gerry Creager n5jxs Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Organization: Da House X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS Antennas References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <3A860723.276DF3D8@cs.tamu.edu> Precedence: bulk "Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI)" wrote: > > Those of you who have an interest in precision GPS antennas might find a > paper by Schupler & Clark in the Feb.2001 GPS World, pages 48-55 of > interest. [In fact, you MUST find it of interest, since I'm one of the > authors.] Mine hasn't made the PO box at the office yet. I'll be looking. I'm trying to get a height-mod paper together for ION/GPS... are you returning to the scene of the fall this year? 73, gerry -- Gerry Creager -- gerry@cs.tamu.edu Network Engineering |Research focusing on Academy for Advanced Telecommunications |Satellite Geodesy and and Learning Technologies |Geodetic Control Texas A&M University 979.458.4020 (Phone) -- 979.847.8578 (Fax) --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sat Feb 10 22:39:03 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id WAA17848 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 22:38:59 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 23:38:07 -0500 From: "Tom Clark (W3IWI)" Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS Antennas References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <3A86172F.5F2C9B79@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk "Ira A. Wilner" wrote: > I read the article the other day and was going to ask you if you had the > opportunity to test any of your pie pan antennas in that test chamber? > > Also, since then there have been a couple of new antennas on the market > that claim to work better while being smaller and lighter than those older > choke ring designs. My copy only arrived today here at home. It was pretty amazing -- Richard Langley told us that he had edited down the ION paper in early January. It was already inpress before I saw the edited copy. They sure work fast! Yes, we've run patterns and phase center measurements on two different iterations (an early 2 ring concept & the 3 ring version I described here 2+ years ago), both using the Motorola patch antenna as the core. Photos of the home-brew antenna can be seen at URL ftp://aleph.gsfc.nasa.gov/GPS/antennas/ See especially choke_proto.jpg (the original 2-ring prototype),and for the later design parts (the raw material), holes (after drilling all the holes), and choke_asm (after pop-riveting the widgets together). Finally tripod shows the assembled (and painted) antenna sitting on a surveying tripod; this was before I added a plastic cake container as a radome. Regarding the newer antenna types -- the paper has data on the Javad choke ring. None of the other manufacturers have provided samples for testing and we haven't been on the range for over a year. Tom --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sun Feb 11 00:10:39 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id AAA03381 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 00:10:38 -0600 (CST) Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Message-ID: Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 00:11:05 -0600 From: Gerry Creager n5jxs Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Organization: Da House X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS Antennas References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <3A862CF9.11F68A76@cs.tamu.edu> Precedence: bulk "Tom Clark (W3IWI)" wrote: > ... > Regarding the newer antenna types -- the paper has data on the Javad choke > ring. None of the other manufacturers have provided samples for testing and > we haven't been on the range for over a year. I'm trying to dig up funding to develop an outdoor range here, n my copious free time. That's been osmething I wanted to get going for several years... I'll advise when I get something going. I have space, now I have to get a portable building and pedistals built... gerry -- Gerry Creager -- gerry@cs.tamu.edu Network Engineering |Research focusing on Academy for Advanced Telecommunications |Satellite Geodesy and and Learning Technologies |Geodetic Control Texas A&M University 979.458.4020 (Phone) -- 979.847.8578 (Fax) --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sun Feb 11 16:44:21 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id QAA09839 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 16:44:20 -0600 (CST) Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Message-ID: Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 16:43:09 -0600 From: Gerry Creager n5jxs Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Organization: Da House X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: US$20 GPS - Report References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <3A87157D.ED58790B@cs.tamu.edu> Precedence: bulk This is the normal behavior. The receiver attempts to find the constellation it last saw, using data on last position and the last valid almanac. If you move a receiver some 1000-1500 miles, you need to tell it to do a sky-search through whatever mechanism you normally would use for these things, rather than waiting for it to time out. Darryl Smith wrote: > > G'Day > > I was just in the USA for a couple of weeks doing some GPS work with the > US$20 GPS units that many people bought surplus, and I have found an > 'Interesting' feature that might lead to some trouble. > > These units will fail to lock onto GPS when you move them significant > distances very quickly, such as when you fly one from Australia to the USA > powered down, but with the battery backup attached. Quickly removing the > battery backup with the unit powered down will reset the unit, allowing the > GPS to seach the sky for satellites. > > I think that the way this unit works is that it assumes that cars do not > drive 8,000 miles in 12 hours, and therefore is using all the computing > power to search the sky where it thinks it is, rather than spending some > time also searching for other satellites. This makes sense because the unit > has very good performance in even areas where part of the sky is obscured, > and re-acquired very quickly gerry -- Gerry Creager -- gerry@cs.tamu.edu Network Engineering |Research focusing on Academy for Advanced Telecommunications |Satellite Geodesy and and Learning Technologies |Geodetic Control Texas A&M University 979.458.4020 (Phone) -- 979.847.8578 (Fax) --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sun Feb 11 17:03:42 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id RAA10646 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 17:03:40 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: davem@mail.cs.ubc.ca Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 15:02:37 -0800 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: Dave Martindale Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS Antennas In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010211150237.007eae80@mail.cs.ubc.ca> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Tom Clark wrote: >[If there is any real interest, I could explain why the reported number >is S/(S+N) and not S and not S/N. It has to do with the way that the >correlation is done in the silicon DSP "receivers" in a typical GPS box.] I, for one, would be interested in hearing about this. Dave --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sun Feb 11 19:21:57 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id TAA21570 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 19:21:56 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: arctic.usna.edu: bruninga owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 11:46:46 -0500 (EST) From: Bob Bruninga X-Sender: bruninga@arctic To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS Antennas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk > "Tom Clark (W3IWI)" mentioned not being on the range for over a year... Gerry said: > I'm trying to dig up funding to develop an outdoor range here, n my > copious free time. That's been osmething I wanted to get going for Don't know if this applies, but to quote a famous ad: "You dont need no stinkin range!" (For simple tests of course...) Any GPS antenna in the clear, combined with the GPS constellation is a complete calibrated 1575 MHz range in itself. Just plot the AZ/EL and Signal strength of the NMEA output of any test antenna scaled to 1575 and over a few hours time, you will have received a calibrated 1575 MHz signal from just about all elevation angles. To see an example, look at the plot way towards the bottom of this page: http://web.usna.navy.mil/~bruninga/astars.html My SIG-PLOT.BAS (included in all vesions of APRSdos) does this for two antenna simultaneousely. Feed one GPS to COM1 and the other to COM2. The result is a plot of both. Great for comparing a test antenna to a known one. (the example shown on the page is a 3/4 vs 1/4 vertical) Tom has pointed out that the SIG Strength reported in the NMEA string is not absolute, but relative and so this technique is not good for absolute gain measurements, but it is perfect for seeing a RELATIVE Elevation angle plot for omni antennas. This is mostly for vertical OMNI antennas since any azimuth can be used. But if you let it run for 24 hours or more to accumulate enough AZIMUTH signals to cover the whole sky, then it can also give an Azimuth plot. Just a thought. de WB4APR, Bob --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Feb 12 01:00:48 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id BAA28328 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 01:00:45 -0600 (CST) From: "Darryl Smith" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] US$20 GPS - Report Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 05:48:20 +1100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <007801c0945b$342441a0$32ae2acb@dell.radio-active.net.au> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk G'Day I was just in the USA for a couple of weeks doing some GPS work with the US$20 GPS units that many people bought surplus, and I have found an 'Interesting' feature that might lead to some trouble. These units will fail to lock onto GPS when you move them significant distances very quickly, such as when you fly one from Australia to the USA powered down, but with the battery backup attached. Quickly removing the battery backup with the unit powered down will reset the unit, allowing the GPS to seach the sky for satellites. I think that the way this unit works is that it assumes that cars do not drive 8,000 miles in 12 hours, and therefore is using all the computing power to search the sky where it thinks it is, rather than spending some time also searching for other satellites. This makes sense because the unit has very good performance in even areas where part of the sky is obscured, and re-acquired very quickly I hope this helps... It took me a few hours to work this one out sitting on the top level of the CNN buildings car park in Los Angeles waiting for the GPS to lock Darryl --------- Darryl Smith, VK2TDS POBox 169 Ingleburn NSW 2565 Australia Mobile Number 0412 929 634 [+61 4 12 929 634 International] Darryl@radio-active.net.au | www.radio-active.net.au for domain names --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Feb 12 05:34:01 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id FAA24856 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 05:34:01 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 17:01:39 -0500 From: "Tom Clark (W3IWI)" Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS Antennas References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <3A870BC3.6F231EC1@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Bob Bruninga wrote: > (For simple tests of course...) > Any GPS antenna in the clear, combined with the GPS constellation is a > complete calibrated 1575 MHz range in itself. Just plot the AZ/EL and > Signal strength of the NMEA output of any test antenna scaled to 1575 > and over a few hours time, you will have received a calibrated 1575 MHz > signal from just about all elevation angles. Your statement is somewhat true for relative antenna gain perfomance, but I disagree strongly with your use of "completely" and "calibrated". Here are some reasons: 1. Your scheme assumes that the NEMA message is a correct representation of S/(S+N). Experience has shown that it can be incorrect at levels of a few dB. [If there is any real interest, I could explain why the reported number is S/(S+N) and not S and not S/N. It has to do with the way that the correlation is done in the silicon DSP "receivers" in a typical GPS box.] 2. The NMEA parameter is quantized at levels of only 1 dB. 3. The reported parameter is S/(S+N). It is usually not correct to assume that the noise N is constant. N consists of: (a) a contrubution due to the receiver (the noise from the LNA, preamp in the antenna, coax losses, and the receiver itself), plus (b) the noise due to the fact that the antenna "sees" ground and other local QRN sources, plus (c) the GPS "self noise" (the total signal power contributed by all the GPS satellites in view). While (a) may be constant, the local QRN contribution to (b) is variable. And most important, you need to perform the sum over the satellites that happen to be in view at a given time (weighted by the antenna gain in that direction) to account for (c). 4. You also need to account for the fact that the 1/r^2 satellite range changes with elevation; the zenith-to-horizon path loss amounts to a ~3 dB correction. To this should also be added the correction for the antenna pattern of the array of 8 helical antennas on the spacecraft. 5. The maximum dynamic range of GPS (the weakest-to-strongest S/(S+N) range that you can see) is only 20-25 dB, largely due to the fact that the spreading gain of the 1023 bit C/A code is only 30 dB. 6. Lumping all GPS satellies into one box is bad. The EIRP varies by several dB from satellite-to-satellie. The Block-IIF satellites are supposed to QRO by several more dB. So I'd suggest that your scheme probably yields an accuracy in the 3-6 dB range. This gives only a crude indication of the gain. I hardly think is is "complete" or "calibrated"! ------------------------------------------------------- As a mini-tutorial, I'd like to expand on item 3 from my list by showing how it breaks down for the case of a high-gain antenna. Let's take the case of your 40' USNA antenna and suppose that you put a GPS feed on it. The antenna beamwidth would be about 1 degree (FWHM) and the gain would be around 33-34 dB. Assume that you have a pretty good LNA and this gives you a system temperature of ~100K. Experience shows that each GPS satellite adds about 20K of noise with a conventional antenna, so with 33 dB of gain, the GPS satellite contributes about 40,000K on axis. It is very unlikely that there are any more GPS satellites in the 1 degree beam. So we see S/(S+N) = 40,000/(40,000 + 100) = 0.9975 power ratio I have no idea what the reported number in the NMEA message would be for this extremely strong signal. But lets continue by assuming that it is some constant plus a true measure of the (nearly unity) S/(S+N) expressed in dB about something. The object of the 40' thought experiment I propose is to measure the main beam pattern. So you move the big antenna 1-2 degrees away, off the peak of the main beam. ~1 degree off axis the signal drops ~6 dB so lets move a bit more to the -10 dB point. We now have S/(S+N) = 4000/(4000+100) = 0.9756 power ratio Now we note that a power drop from 0.9975 to 0.9756 represents a change in the NMEA parameter of less than 0.1 dB. Even if you move further to the -20 db point, you still have: S/S+N = 400/(400+100) = 0.8 seen the parameter reported in the NMEA message drop by only 0.97 dB, and that is still less that the quantization reported in the NMEA numbers! What your scheme can do is to compare two antennas and follow a recipe like: a. Plan to use a complete full day of data. This insures that you have a full repeat of the geometry in your observations. b. Assume that the antennas have azimuthal symmetry and forget trying to measure azimuth vartiations. c. Average the data into 0-90 elevation and 1-32 PRN bins in a 2-D array (You might want to use 5 degree elevation bins). d. Fit each satellite vs. elevation with a simple curve (gaussian or cosine^2 is probably good) to determine an average satellite- to-satellite signal level correction. e. Apply these corrections for each of the PRNs to develop a single elevation curve. f. Comparing these curves for two different antennas will give a pretty good idea of the relative performance. All the averaging over satellites and azimuths helps to remove the error sources described above. ---------------------------------------------------------- Comparing the stuff in out paper (and what Gerry suggested doing) with your scheme is rather like the difference between cantelope seeds and watermelons. The material in our paper (and as delivered by the several groups doing outdoor range measurements using GPS as the signal source -- including what Gerry was suggesting) has also concentrated in locating the antenna phase center at mm-levels (especially its variation with elevation), in studying the azimuthal symmetry of these antennas, and in trying to understand the effects of near-field objects on these parameters. These are the properties that become critical to those using GPS for high precision measurements. 73, Tom --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Feb 12 10:24:12 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA18279 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:24:11 -0600 (CST) Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Message-ID: Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:21:26 -0600 From: Gerry Creager Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University X-Accept-Language: en, ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS Antennas References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <3A880D86.9188A9E8@cs.tamu.edu> Precedence: bulk Brooks Shera wrote: > > Hi Tom > > While we are on the topic of "amateur" and "professional" measurements... > > I think some folks are interested in multipath reduction more than the > angle-averaged phase center data which you focused on in your previous > articles. I believe that multipath reduction is the main reason for using a > choke ring design in the first place. Am I wrong? If not parameters such > as LHP rejection and low-angle signal rejection may be of considerable > interest. Hopefully your new article in GPS World will discuss these. Indeed, increasing the inductance of the antenna raises the Q. Recall that an antenna, especially inthis instance, incorporates the active element and the associated support structures. Including the Choke Ring. I personally suspect that there's also an element of multipath mitigation by knife-edge diffraction on some of these antennas... but I've not had time to test this. If memory serves, Tom thinks I'm crazy on this! > It is seems important to have an evaluation of the your baking pan choke > ring vs. a plain absorber, or a even just a flat ground plane, by someone > such as yourself who has the equipment to do it right. So far I haven't > found a reference that discusses the effectiveness of even the machined > JPL-type choke rings. Is there a published paper (hopefully in a refereed > journal) from JPL about this? Doesn't the "scientific method" suggest that > a comparison measurement with just a bare Antenna 97 be published? The Dorne-Margolin (JPL) choke ring design is shrouded in a bit of legend. I'm told that a discussion of multipath mitigation was occurring in the Los Angeles area at one of the finer drinking establishments, and one of the participants had designed the choke ring for one of the planetary probes JPL is known for (Viking, I believe...). He sketched out a rough design and made it look official by adding numbers approximating the ring heights and diameters for L1, based on mental math and memory. Someone scooped up the napkin and took it to the machine shop the next day and said "Build this. This way." And thus was born the reference antenna... Tom? Is this urban legend correct? I've heard it from 3 or 4 sources, now, but something tells me you might have been there, too... > For me, an Antenna 97 on your baking pan choke ring performed qualitatively > the same as the identical antenna on a simple flat ground plane, in regard > to multipath rejection. For this comparison I estimated the multipath by > comparing double-differenced code phases with double-differenced carrier > phases for the same pair of sats over a period of time. This is not a > precise measurement but it's cheap and perhaps represents the performance > one can expect under typical operating conditions. Unfortunately it seems > to be the only data available (is it the antelope seed or the watermelon?). What was your multipath environment? If you were already in a benign environment, it may be difficult to determine any difference. 73, gerry -- Gerry Creager | Never ascribe to Malice that AATLT | which can adequately be Texas A&M University | explained by Stupidity. 979.458.4020 (Phone) | -- Lazarus Long 979.847.8578 (Fax) --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Feb 12 20:04:16 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id UAA18651 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:04:15 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Brooks Shera" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS Antennas Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:54:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <000c01c094a7$7fbfcf20$0100a8c0@brooksnotebook> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Hi Tom While we are on the topic of "amateur" and "professional" measurements... I think some folks are interested in multipath reduction more than the angle-averaged phase center data which you focused on in your previous articles. I believe that multipath reduction is the main reason for using a choke ring design in the first place. Am I wrong? If not parameters such as LHP rejection and low-angle signal rejection may be of considerable interest. Hopefully your new article in GPS World will discuss these. It is seems important to have an evaluation of the your baking pan choke ring vs. a plain absorber, or a even just a flat ground plane, by someone such as yourself who has the equipment to do it right. So far I haven't found a reference that discusses the effectiveness of even the machined JPL-type choke rings. Is there a published paper (hopefully in a refereed journal) from JPL about this? Doesn't the "scientific method" suggest that a comparison measurement with just a bare Antenna 97 be published? For me, an Antenna 97 on your baking pan choke ring performed qualitatively the same as the identical antenna on a simple flat ground plane, in regard to multipath rejection. For this comparison I estimated the multipath by comparing double-differenced code phases with double-differenced carrier phases for the same pair of sats over a period of time. This is not a precise measurement but it's cheap and perhaps represents the performance one can expect under typical operating conditions. Unfortunately it seems to be the only data available (is it the antelope seed or the watermelon?). Brooks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Clark (W3IWI)" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 15:01 PM Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS Antennas > Bob Bruninga wrote: > > > (For simple tests of course...) > > Any GPS antenna in the clear, combined with the GPS constellation is a > > complete calibrated 1575 MHz range in itself. Just plot the AZ/EL and > > Signal strength of the NMEA output of any test antenna scaled to 1575 > > and over a few hours time, you will have received a calibrated 1575 MHz > > signal from just about all elevation angles. > > Your statement is somewhat true for relative antenna gain perfomance, but I > disagree strongly with your use of "completely" and "calibrated". Here are > some reasons: > > 1. Your scheme assumes that the NEMA message is a correct representation of > S/(S+N). Experience has shown that it can be incorrect at levels of a few > dB. [If there is any real interest, I could explain why the reported number > is S/(S+N) and not S and not S/N. It has to do with the way that the > correlation is done in the silicon DSP "receivers" in a typical GPS box.] > > 2. The NMEA parameter is quantized at levels of only 1 dB. > > 3. The reported parameter is S/(S+N). It is usually not correct to assume > that the noise N is constant. N consists of: (a) a contrubution due to the > receiver (the noise from the LNA, preamp in the antenna, coax losses, and > the receiver itself), plus (b) the noise due to the fact that the antenna > "sees" ground and other local QRN sources, plus (c) the GPS "self noise" > (the total signal power contributed by all the GPS satellites in view). > > While (a) may be constant, the local QRN contribution to (b) is variable. > And most important, you need to perform the sum over the satellites that > happen to be in view at a given time (weighted by the antenna gain in that > direction) to account for (c). > > 4. You also need to account for the fact that the 1/r^2 satellite range > changes with elevation; the zenith-to-horizon path loss amounts to a ~3 dB > correction. To this should also be added the correction for the antenna > pattern of the array of 8 helical antennas on the spacecraft. > > 5. The maximum dynamic range of GPS (the weakest-to-strongest S/(S+N) range > that you can see) is only 20-25 dB, largely due to the fact that the > spreading gain of the 1023 bit C/A code is only 30 dB. > > 6. Lumping all GPS satellies into one box is bad. The EIRP varies by > several dB from satellite-to-satellie. The Block-IIF satellites are > supposed to QRO by several more dB. > > So I'd suggest that your scheme probably yields an accuracy in the 3-6 dB > range. This gives only a crude indication of the gain. I hardly think is is > "complete" or "calibrated"! > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > As a mini-tutorial, I'd like to expand on item 3 from my list by showing > how it breaks down for the case of a high-gain antenna. Let's take the case > of your 40' USNA antenna and suppose that you put a GPS feed on it. The > antenna beamwidth would be about 1 degree (FWHM) and the gain would be > around 33-34 dB. Assume that you have a pretty good LNA and this gives you > a system temperature of ~100K. Experience shows that each GPS satellite > adds about 20K of noise with a conventional antenna, so with 33 dB of gain, > the GPS satellite contributes about 40,000K on axis. It is very unlikely > that there are any more GPS satellites in the 1 degree beam. So we see > > S/(S+N) = 40,000/(40,000 + 100) = 0.9975 power ratio > > I have no idea what the reported number in the NMEA message would be for > this extremely strong signal. But lets continue by assuming that it is some > constant plus a true measure of the (nearly unity) S/(S+N) expressed in dB > about something. > > The object of the 40' thought experiment I propose is to measure the main > beam pattern. So you move the big antenna 1-2 degrees away, off the peak > of the main beam. ~1 degree off axis the signal drops ~6 dB so lets move a > bit more to the -10 dB point. We now have > > S/(S+N) = 4000/(4000+100) = 0.9756 power ratio > > Now we note that a power drop from 0.9975 to 0.9756 represents a change in > the NMEA parameter of less than 0.1 dB. Even if you move further to the -20 > db point, you still have: > > S/S+N = 400/(400+100) = 0.8 > > seen the parameter reported in the NMEA message drop by only 0.97 dB, and > that is still less that the quantization reported in the NMEA numbers! > > What your scheme can do is to compare two antennas and follow a recipe > like: > > a. Plan to use a complete full day of data. This insures that > you have a full repeat of the geometry in your observations. > b. Assume that the antennas have azimuthal symmetry and forget > trying to measure azimuth vartiations. > c. Average the data into 0-90 elevation and 1-32 PRN bins in a 2-D > array (You might want to use 5 degree elevation bins). > d. Fit each satellite vs. elevation with a simple curve (gaussian > or cosine^2 is probably good) to determine an average satellite- > to-satellite signal level correction. > e. Apply these corrections for each of the PRNs to develop a > single elevation curve. > f. Comparing these curves for two different antennas will give > a pretty good idea of the relative performance. All the > averaging over satellites and azimuths helps to remove the > error sources described above. > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > Comparing the stuff in out paper (and what Gerry suggested doing) with your > scheme is rather like the difference between cantelope seeds and > watermelons. > > The material in our paper (and as delivered by the several groups doing > outdoor range measurements using GPS as the signal source -- including what > Gerry was suggesting) has also concentrated in locating the antenna phase > center at mm-levels (especially its variation with elevation), in studying > the azimuthal symmetry of these antennas, and in trying to understand the > effects of near-field objects on these parameters. These are the properties > that become critical to those using GPS for high precision measurements. > > 73, Tom > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: EBS@LANL.GOV > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Feb 12 22:12:59 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id WAA29610 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 22:12:58 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 12:41:04 -0700 From: Scott Tillman Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Organization: AZ Dept. of Public Safety X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] re: recent info References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <3A883C50.59098994@primenet.com> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk After a while of slow activity, this is great and educational information. I appreciate those who have the necessary math and skill to advance usage of GPS to those of us lower in the food chain. scott k7ysv --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Feb 12 22:18:13 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id WAA00208 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 22:18:12 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 23:16:30 -0500 From: "Tom Clark (W3IWI)" Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS Antennas References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <3A88B51E.B6D1767E@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Gerry > I personally suspect that there's also an element of multipath > mitigation by knife-edge diffraction on some of these antennas... but > I've not had time to test this. If memory serves, Tom thinks I'm crazy > on this! Gerry -- you misquoted me. The problem is that most of the multipath effects are in the near field of the antenna. Knife-Edge Diffraction requires you to see the EM field over a few wavelengths. The correct term in the near field is "scattering". In point of fact, something related to this has been one of my personal antenna vendettas. It has been found that when the JPL-style choke rings are mounted on a large concrete pier, a multipath error develops that is not seen when they are on a smaller pier. By large: typical IGS monuments (including my GODE site) are 24"-30" (GODE is 30") diameter concrete structures. When the same antenna is mounted nearby on a tripod (or on a concrete pier smaller than the ~14" outer diameter of the aluminum rings) the behavior is much different. This effect is mitigated when the large concrete pier is covered in microwave absorber. So what is happening. In the GPSW paper, you will see some of the tests refer to "foilboard" (the 1/2" thick urethane foam insulation covered with aluminum foil) and "cement board" (like sheetrock, but with concrete instead of gypsum). Several years ago I found that when a conductive sheet the diameter of the concrete pier was behind the antenna (at the same place as the concrete would have been, as mimicked in Fig.6), we saw a multipath-like signal at >>> HIGH <<< elevation angles. The red curve in Fig.7 in GPSW, pg.51 shows this. It turns out that the red curve is precisely the shape of the J1(x) Bessel function that describes the beam pattern of a uniformly illuminated circular aperture the size of the pier. In optics this is known as the Airy disk where the beam pattern for a telescope is described as 1.22 lambda/D. My speculation was that the dielectric properties of the concrete pier behind the antenna was causing a classical "Airy disk" diffraction, which would show up at HIGH elevation angles. Which of course is counter to conventional wisdom where multipath is a LOW elevation effect. This is what gives rise to our statement (bullet 2 in the 3rd column of Pg.54) that anything near the antenna can & will affect the patterns. To answer one of Brooks' points -- yes, I have done a "nude" Antenna 97. However there really is no such thing as a "nude" small patch antenna. Normally they are designed to be mag- mounted on a car's roof, in which case they are effectively over an effectively infinite ground plane. If not mounted on a plane and dangled in the breeze, everything else nearby (including the antenna's coax, or in our case, the mounting jig and the antenna positioner seen in Fig.1 & 2) are impossible to remove. So I tend to discount any measurements on any of the small patch antennas. You also said > The Dorne-Margolin (JPL) choke ring design is shrouded in a bit of > legend. I'm told that a discussion of multipath mitigation was > occurring in the Los Angeles area at one of the finer drinking > establishments, and one of the participants had designed the choke ring > for one of the planetary probes JPL is known for (Viking, I > believe...). He sketched out a rough design and made it look official > by adding numbers approximating the ring heights and diameters for L1, > based on mental math and memory. Someone scooped up the napkin and took > it to the machine shop the next day and said "Build this. This way." > And thus was born the reference antenna... Tom? Is this urban legend > correct? I've heard it from 3 or 4 sources, now, but something tells me > you might have been there, too... You have mixed up several of the stories I've told you. Perhaps your vision was clouded by fermented Moravian Barley ;<}. Yes, I was there for some of the incidents and know the players well. The principal individual was Donovan Spitzmesser (who used to be W6??? but let his license lapse), now retired from JPL. Some of the events occurred in the middle of the Mojave desert at Barstow. The drinking establishment incident concerned the use of a 2-turn tapered helix antenna. The taper on one particular SOLO disposable plastic drinking is just right to make a helix that covers both the L1 & L2 frequencies. Don also pointed out that putting said helix in an 8" diameter salad bowl was a good thing, thus giving rise to the infamous "helibowl" antenna. I later did detailed range measurements and developed an analytic theory relating the size of the salad bowl to the size of the beam. This allowed the helibowl to be used as a dish feed on dishes with several different f/D rations. The need for choke ring structures was a separate activity. Don did the initial design/prototype for a compromise choke ring structure to cover both L1 & L2. He decided that the rings should be about 2-1/2" deep, 1" wide and 1/8" thick. To this day, the standard choke ring sold by Ashtech, Trimble, Leica, Osborne, etc. has 2.50000" ring depth, 1.00000" ring gap and 0.125000" ring thickness. Only the new Javad antenna is different. It is metallized injection molded plastic with integral metric dimensions (I believe our ION+GPSW papers are the first time that the standard choke ring has been compared to the new Javad design). Another "urban legend" concerns the 7.61 cm high "spike" used to center these antennas at geodetic markers. Another JPL engineer, Steve Dinardo was the source for this standard. Steve was a pretty big guy and has a hard time affixing the Type-N connector on the base of these antennas. 7.61 cm was chosen because it was the first spike Steve found that would let him get his fist into the gap between the bottom of the antenna and the monument. All the Voyager and Viking antenna stories have to do with dual S/X dish feeds and small dishes and nothing to do with GPS. And yes, I had something to do with applying these designs. 73, Tom --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Feb 13 04:09:08 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id EAA06340 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 04:09:08 -0600 (CST) Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on garnet.sover.net) office-pc from arc6a101.bf.sover.net [209.198.112.102] 209.198.112.102 Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:50:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: "Ira A. Wilner" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS Antennas Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:05:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <000101c0955f$615a1820$6670c6d1@office-pc> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk -----Original Message----- From: Gerry Creager To: TAPR Special Interest Group Date: Monday, February 12, 2001 11:23 AM Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS Antennas > >I personally suspect that there's also an element of multipath >mitigation by knife-edge diffraction on some of these antennas... but >I've not had time to test this. If memory serves, Tom thinks I'm crazy >on this! > Hi Gerry & Tom, Is the wavelength small enough to place the edges of the choke rings out of the near field of the active antenna element? And how about signal polarization angle versus elevation angle and the "knife edge" effect of the rings? Inquiring minds and all that jazz... --Ira --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Feb 13 07:46:09 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id HAA19755 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 07:46:08 -0600 (CST) Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 07:40:20 -0600 From: Gerry Creager n5jxs Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Organization: Da House X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS Antennas References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <3A893944.D9580A53@cs.tamu.edu> Precedence: bulk "Ira A. Wilner" wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gerry Creager > To: TAPR Special Interest Group > Date: Monday, February 12, 2001 11:23 AM > Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS Antennas > > > > >I personally suspect that there's also an element of multipath > >mitigation by knife-edge diffraction on some of these antennas... but > >I've not had time to test this. If memory serves, Tom thinks I'm crazy > >on this! > > > > Hi Gerry & Tom, > > Is the wavelength small enough to place the edges of the choke rings out of > the near field of the active antenna element? And how about signal > polarization angle versus elevation angle and the "knife edge" effect of > the rings? Good questions, and Tom's answer is also a good one. The scattering effect of near-field ring elements is more in line with reality than knife-edge diffraction. Were we looking at rings 4-6 lambda away, I might really start to argue that we were far enough out to see a knife-edge effect... but in this case, I let my fingers get ahead of either a thought process, or reality. Now: polarization: Because of the unpredictable angle(s) of incidence of the reflectors contributing to multipath, I think we can safely assume a distribution that will include both appropriate polarization and an adequately flat angle to allow for a diffractive scattering in both near- and far-fields to occur. I've not modelled this: It's been a topic of discussion over a number of malted beverages, but I kept thinking I was gonna get the outdoor range up and do some empirical tests. I guess it's time to crank up the parallel processors again, instead! And, I feel like I must note that the Inquirer is not generally the peer review publication of choice for most of my work...;-) 73, gerry -- Gerry Creager -- gerry@cs.tamu.edu Network Engineering |Research focusing on Academy for Advanced Telecommunications |Satellite Geodesy and and Learning Technologies |Geodetic Control Texas A&M University 979.458.4020 (Phone) -- 979.847.8578 (Fax) --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Feb 13 12:09:22 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id MAA10314 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 12:09:20 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: X-Sender: cheisler@pop.blazenet.net Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:23:57 -0500 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: "Charles E. Heisler" Subject: [tacgps] Test Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010212202255.00b0c290@pop.blazenet.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Sorry Gang....Just Delete --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Feb 13 15:34:37 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id PAA27809 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 15:34:36 -0600 (CST) From: HBonhorst@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 16:32:26 EST Subject: [tacgps] Motorola gps receiver To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_9c.ba52be5.27bb01ea_boundary" Content-Disposition: Inline List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <9c.ba52be5.27bb01ea@aol.com> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk --part1_9c.ba52be5.27bb01ea_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit part number is A11121P118 its approx. 5 Years old. Can somebody tell me more about this unit? Where can I find the command reference? Please help Thank you in advance Hubert, DB7ME --part1_9c.ba52be5.27bb01ea_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit part number is A11121P118
its approx. 5 Years old.
Can somebody tell me more about this unit?
Where can I find the command reference?
Please help
Thank you in advance
Hubert, DB7ME
--part1_9c.ba52be5.27bb01ea_boundary-- --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Feb 13 20:45:07 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id UAA26645 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 20:45:07 -0600 (CST) From: "Richard M. Hambly" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Cc: Subject: [tacgps] RE: Motorola gps receiver Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 17:27:45 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C095E2.46EC4250" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C095E2.46EC4250 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hubert, This is a Motorola "Basic Oncore" with DGPS, RTC and 1PPS outputs.It does not have carrier phase or battery backup options. Almost all of these were 6-channel units but those made after Nov 1996 were 8-channel. The firmware is probably very old, V5.4 and 6.0 were common then. Current firmware is V10.0. The latest firmware that can be applied to those old boards is 8.8, I believe. Unfortunately, the command reference for the Basic Oncore is not in print but the newer version for the Oncore VP is available from Synergy Systems, LLC in San Diego for about $50 or so. See them at http://www.synergy-gps.com/. There is a similar command reference for the UT and GT Oncores available free at http://www.synergy-gps.com/TR_Manual.html. Be careful, however, there are some important differences between the VP and the UT/GT. But free is a lot cheaper that $50! Rick W2GPS -----Original Message----- From: bounce-tacgps-5621@lists.tapr.org [mailto:bounce-tacgps-5621@lists.tapr.org]On Behalf Of HBonhorst@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 4:32 PM To: TAPR Special Interest Group Subject: [tacgps] Motorola gps receiver part number is A11121P118 its approx. 5 Years old. Can somebody tell me more about this unit? Where can I find the command reference? Please help Thank you in advance Hubert, DB7ME ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C095E2.46EC4250 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hubert,
 
This is a Motorola "Basic Oncore" = with DGPS,=20 RTC and 1PPS outputs.It does not have carrier phase or battery backup = options.=20 Almost all of these were 6-channel units but those made after Nov 1996 = were=20 8-channel. The firmware is probably very old, V5.4 and 6.0 were common=20 then.  Current firmware is V10.0. The latest firmware that can be = applied=20 to those old boards is 8.8, I believe.
 
Unfortunately, the command = reference for the=20 Basic Oncore is not in print but the newer version for the Oncore VP is=20 available from Synergy Systems, LLC in San Diego for about $50 or = so.  See=20 them at http://www.synergy-gps.com/.&nbs= p; There=20 is a similar command reference for the UT and GT Oncores available free = at http://www.synergy-gps= .com/TR_Manual.html. Be=20 careful, however, there are some important differences between the VP = and the=20 UT/GT.  But free is a lot cheaper that $50!
 
Rick
W2GPS
 
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 bounce-tacgps-5621@lists.tapr.org=20 [mailto:bounce-tacgps-5621@lists.tapr.org]On Behalf Of=20 HBonhorst@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 4:32=20 PM
To: TAPR Special Interest Group
Subject: [tacgps] = Motorola gps receiver

part number is A11121P118
its approx. 5 Years old.
Can = somebody=20 tell me more about this unit?
Where can I find the command = reference?=20
Please help
Thank you in advance
Hubert, DB7ME
=20
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C095E2.46EC4250-- --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Feb 14 01:08:34 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id BAA25684 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 01:08:33 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Kirby, Brian" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] RE: Motorola gps receiver Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 16:05:39 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C09609.19EC1BF0" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09609.19EC1BF0 Content-Type: text/plain I looked on Synergy's site, the Motorola distributor for GPS in the USA, its not listed. I am wondering if its the old PVT-6, a 6 channel timing/carrier phase GPS unit.....Brooks might know.... > ---------- > From: HBonhorst@aol.com[SMTP:HBonhorst@aol.com] > Reply To: TAPR Special Interest Group > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 3:32 PM > To: TAPR Special Interest Group > Subject: [tacgps] Motorola gps receiver > > part number is A11121P118 > its approx. 5 Years old. > Can somebody tell me more about this unit? > Where can I find the command reference? > Please help > Thank you in advance > Hubert, DB7ME > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09609.19EC1BF0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [tacgps] Motorola gps receiver

I looked on = Synergy's site, the Motorola distributor for GPS in the USA, its not = listed.

I am wondering if = its the old PVT-6, a 6 channel timing/carrier phase GPS unit.....Brooks = might know....

    ----------
    From:   = HBonhorst@aol.com[SMTP:HBonhorst@aol.com]
    Reply To: =       TAPR Special Interest Group
    Sent:   = Tuesday, February 13, 2001 3:32 = PM
    To: =     TAPR Special = Interest Group
    Subject: =        [tacgps] Motorola gps receiver

    part number is A11121P118
    its approx. 5 Years old.
    Can somebody tell me more about this = unit?
    Where can I find the command = reference?
    Please help
    Thank you in advance
    Hubert, DB7ME

------_=_NextPart_001_01C09609.19EC1BF0-- --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Feb 14 02:09:46 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id CAA28769 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 02:09:45 -0600 (CST) Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Message-ID: Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 02:06:31 -0600 From: Gerry Creager Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University X-Accept-Language: en, ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] RE: Motorola gps receiver References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <3A8A3C87.1BDE6314@cs.tamu.edu> Precedence: bulk I'll have to check but that looks familiar: like a6-channel OnCore. I may have the secret decoder ring in the docs at home to figure it out. If I'm not completely brain-dead in the morning (network problems tonite) I'll snag that notebook and bring it in. 73, gerry -- Gerry Creager | Never ascribe to Malice that AATLT | which can adequately be Texas A&M University | explained by Stupidity. 979.458.4020 (Phone) | -- Lazarus Long 979.847.8578 (Fax) --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Feb 14 02:09:56 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id CAA28776 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 02:09:54 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Brooks Shera" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [tacgps] RE: Motorola gps receiver Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 20:40:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0030_01C095FD.45AE76E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <003301c09637$f310b520$0100a8c0@brooksnotebook> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C095FD.45AE76E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [tacgps] Motorola gps receiverHi Brian et al. I have a couple of the "old" PVT-6 units that are at least 5 years old = and their parts numbers both start with PVT06 xxxxxx, so I would guess = Bonhorst's unit is not a PVT-6. Perhaps the best way to find out more = is to e-mail Randy Warner at Info@synergy-gps.com.=20 Brooks ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kirby, Brian=20 To: TAPR Special Interest Group=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 15:05 PM Subject: [tacgps] RE: Motorola gps receiver I looked on Synergy's site, the Motorola distributor for GPS in the = USA, its not listed.=20 I am wondering if its the old PVT-6, a 6 channel timing/carrier phase = GPS unit.....Brooks might know....=20 ----------=20 From: HBonhorst@aol.com[SMTP:HBonhorst@aol.com]=20 Reply To: TAPR Special Interest Group=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 3:32 PM=20 To: TAPR Special Interest Group=20 Subject: [tacgps] Motorola gps receiver=20 part number is A11121P118=20 its approx. 5 Years old.=20 Can somebody tell me more about this unit?=20 Where can I find the command reference?=20 Please help=20 Thank you in advance=20 Hubert, DB7ME=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C095FD.45AE76E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [tacgps] Motorola gps receiver
Hi Brian et al.
 
I have a couple of the "old" PVT-6 = units that are=20 at least 5 years old and their parts numbers both start with PVT06 = xxxxxx, so I=20 would guess Bonhorst's unit is not a PVT-6.  Perhaps the best way = to find=20 out more is to e-mail Randy = Warner at=20 Info@synergy-gps.com.=20
 
Brooks
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Kirby, Brian
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, = 2001 15:05=20 PM
Subject: [tacgps] RE: Motorola = gps=20 receiver

I looked on Synergy's = site, the=20 Motorola distributor for GPS in the USA, its not listed.

I am wondering if its = the old PVT-6,=20 a 6 channel timing/carrier phase GPS unit.....Brooks might = know....=20

    ---------- =
    From:   HBonhorst@aol.co= m[SMTP:HBonhorst@aol.com]=20
    Reply To:=20       TAPR=20 Special Interest Group
    Sent:   Tuesday,=20 February 13, 2001 3:32 PM
    To:     TAPR Special Interest Group
    Subject:        = [tacgps] Motorola gps = receiver

    part number is A11121P118 =
    its approx. 5 Years old.
    Can somebody tell me more about this unit?
    Where can I find the command reference? =
    Please help
    Thank you=20 in advance
    Hubert, = DB7ME=20

------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C095FD.45AE76E0-- --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Feb 14 11:42:15 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id LAA20657 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 11:42:14 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: jim_johnson@agilent.com To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] RE: Motorola gps receiver Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:20:23 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C096AA.6E08B026" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C096AA.6E08B026 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have a unit here that we have been calling a PVT-6 all this time. I have it powering up as I type. TAC32 identifies it as a Motorola VP, but I'm not sure TAC32 has the ability to flag a PVT-6 anymore (Rick?). I think the older versions used to ID a PVT-6. The version I'm using is 2.5 (TAC32). I have another unit we also call a PVT-6 and I'll power it up shortly. It has a completely different PC board layout so I'm not sure what it will show. TAC32 gives the following data about the one powering up now ... COPYRIGHT 1991-1994 MOTOROLA, INC. SOFTWARE VER #5 SOFTWARE REV #0 SOFTWARE DATE 20 JAN 1994 MODEL# A11121A115 SERIAL# SSG0038200 MANUFACTUR DATE 350AMA129 @@Ba: OK - must be a 6-channel Rcvr (other data omitted). So, I ask, is this a PVT-6? I think it is. 73, Jim W6SC --- Jim Johnson Agilent Technologies jim_johnson@agilent.com "Innovating the HP Way" -----Original Message----- From: Brooks Shera [mailto:ebs@lanl.gov] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 7:41 PM To: TAPR Special Interest Group Subject: [tacgps] RE: Motorola gps receiver Hi Brian et al. I have a couple of the "old" PVT-6 units that are at least 5 years old and their parts numbers both start with PVT06 xxxxxx, so I would guess Bonhorst's unit is not a PVT-6. Perhaps the best way to find out more is to e-mail Randy Warner at Info@synergy-gps.com . Brooks ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirby, Brian To: TAPR Special Interest Group Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 15:05 PM Subject: [tacgps] RE: Motorola gps receiver I looked on Synergy's site, the Motorola distributor for GPS in the USA, its not listed. I am wondering if its the old PVT-6, a 6 channel timing/carrier phase GPS unit.....Brooks might know.... ---------- From: HBonhorst@aol.com[SMTP:HBonhorst@aol.com ] Reply To: TAPR Special Interest Group Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 3:32 PM To: TAPR Special Interest Group Subject: [tacgps] Motorola gps receiver part number is A11121P118 its approx. 5 Years old. Can somebody tell me more about this unit? Where can I find the command reference? Please help Thank you in advance Hubert, DB7ME ------_=_NextPart_001_01C096AA.6E08B026 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: [tacgps] Motorola gps receiver
I have a unit here that we have been calling a PVT-6 all
this time.  I have it powering up as I type.  TAC32 identifies
it as a Motorola VP, but I'm not sure TAC32 has the ability
to flag a PVT-6 anymore (Rick?).  I think the older versions
used to ID a PVT-6.  The version I'm using is 2.5 (TAC32).
I have another unit we also call a PVT-6 and I'll power it up
shortly.  It has a completely different PC board layout so
I'm not sure what it will show.  TAC32 gives the following
data about the one powering up now ...
 
COPYRIGHT 1991-1994 MOTOROLA, INC.
SOFTWARE VER #5
SOFTWARE REV #0
SOFTWARE DATE 20 JAN 1994
MODEL#  A11121A115
SERIAL# SSG0038200
MANUFACTUR DATE 350AMA129
 
@@Ba: OK - must be a 6-channel Rcvr
 
(other data omitted).
 
So, I ask, is this a PVT-6?  I think it is.
 
73,
Jim W6SC
 

  ---
  Jim Johnson
  Agilent Technologies
  jim_johnson@agilent.com
  "Innovating the HP Way"

-----Original Message-----
From: Brooks Shera [mailto:ebs@lanl.gov]
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 7:41 PM
To: TAPR Special Interest Group
Subject: [tacgps] RE: Motorola gps receiver

Hi Brian et al.
 
I have a couple of the "old" PVT-6 units that are at least 5 years old and their parts numbers both start with PVT06 xxxxxx, so I would guess Bonhorst's unit is not a PVT-6.  Perhaps the best way to find out more is to e-mail Randy Warner at Info@synergy-gps.com.
 
Brooks
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 15:05 PM
Subject: [tacgps] RE: Motorola gps receiver

I looked on Synergy's site, the Motorola distributor for GPS in the USA, its not listed.

I am wondering if its the old PVT-6, a 6 channel timing/carrier phase GPS unit.....Brooks might know....

    ----------
    From:   HBonhorst@aol.com[SMTP:HBonhorst@aol.com]
    Reply To:       TAPR Special Interest Group
    Sent:   Tuesday, February 13, 2001 3:32 PM
    To:     TAPR Special Interest Group
    Subject:        [tacgps] Motorola gps receiver

    part number is A11121P118
    its approx. 5 Years old.
    Can somebody tell me more about this unit?
    Where can I find the command reference?
    Please help
    Thank you in advance
    Hubert, DB7ME

------_=_NextPart_001_01C096AA.6E08B026-- --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Feb 14 12:33:28 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id MAA26231 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:33:21 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 18:32:06 +0000 From: Dr Thomas A Clark Organization: NASA/GSFC X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" CC: TAPR TACGPS SIG Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS choke ring References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010214101313.00b15ef0@pop.blazenet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3A8ACF26.25CB1C96@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk "Charles E. Heisler" wrote: > > Hi Tom; I am preparing to build yet another one of the Antennas > you have described from time to time, but I have a question regarding > the pie plate/duct cap GPS choke ring antenna. What is the purpose > of the threaded post soldered in the center of the outlet box. Is it merely > to secure it to a base with a bolt or stud from the bottom? > > Thanks -73- > Charlie > K3VDB > I use my antennas on top of a standard surveying tripod. The threaded stud is 5/8-11 which matches the standrard surveying instruments. In the top is a small 5/8-11" hex setscrew with a 1/4" hex. I have a 4-40 or 6-32 hex nut in the hole to mate with a flat-head machine screw thru the center of the plate. This serves to reference the center of the GPS patch antenna to the center of the 5/8-11 thread to better than 1 mm. Tom --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Feb 14 16:52:47 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id QAA19372 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:52:47 -0600 (CST) From: HBonhorst@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:50:59 EST Subject: [tacgps] Motorola gps receiver To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_ad.6eb8399.27bc65d3_boundary" Content-Disposition: Inline List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk --part1_ad.6eb8399.27bc65d3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit First of all I want to say thank you for the effort Might be the receiver ID message could be helpful SFTW P/N # 98-P39949M Version 8 Rev. 4 Date 13 JUL 1995 MODEL # A11121 P 118 HDWR P/N #_ SERIAL SSG0173454 MANUFACTUR DATE 6H19 OPTION LIST IB TAC32 evaluation version reports Motorola VP, Bin, 6ch, V8.4, has DGPS, T-RAIM Hubert DB7ME --part1_ad.6eb8399.27bc65d3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit First of all I want to say thank you for the effort
Might be the receiver ID message could be helpful
SFTW P/N # 98-P39949M
Version 8 Rev. 4 Date 13 JUL 1995    
MODEL # A11121 P 118
HDWR P/N #_
SERIAL SSG0173454
MANUFACTUR DATE 6H19
OPTION LIST IB

TAC32 evaluation version reports
Motorola VP, Bin, 6ch, V8.4, has DGPS, T-RAIM

Hubert DB7ME
--part1_ad.6eb8399.27bc65d3_boundary-- --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Feb 14 17:30:16 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id RAA24869 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:30:16 -0600 (CST) From: info@synergy-gps.com To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:26:57 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [tacgps] Re: Motorola gps receiver Reply-to: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Message-ID: Priority: normal In-reply-to: List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <3A8AA3C1.3933.1C65F9F@localhost> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Hubert, The ID data you've provided indicates a 6 channel Basic Oncore. The version 8.4 firmware, released during the Summer of 1995, was also used in the 8 channel Basic Oncore which (unfortunately) shared the same part number. During the transition from 6 to 8 channle Basic Oncore models, some of the newer 8 channel units could be operated in 6 channel mode (but not the other way around). Option I indicates 1PPS with Timing Receiver Autonomous Integrity Monitor (TRAIM) and Option B indicates differential input capability (DGPS). The on-board RTC was standard (previously optional). The Basic Oncore shipped in a protective, black plastic housing identical to the previous PVT-6 OEM GPS receiver. The PVT-6 was renamed to Basic Oncore in 1995 so that this product (Motorola's first OEM board shipped in volume) would fit into the same marketing category with the (then) new VP Oncore. If you wish, we can fax (no PDF available) the multi-page Basic Oncore Engineering Notes to you on receipt of your fax number and address (which our electronic fax need to function). Hope this helps. Thanks & Regards, Art Sepin ----------------- Reply Separator -------------------- > First of all I want to say thank you for the effort > Might be the receiver ID message could be helpful > SFTW P/N # 98-P39949M > Version 8 Rev. 4 Date 13 JUL 1995 > MODEL # A11121 P 118 > HDWR P/N #_ > SERIAL SSG0173454 > MANUFACTUR DATE 6H19 > OPTION LIST IB > > TAC32 evaluation version reports > Motorola VP, Bin, 6ch, V8.4, has DGPS, T-RAIM > > Hubert DB7ME > Synergy Systems, LLC P.O. Box 262250, San Diego, CA 92196 Voice (858) 566-0666 Toll Free 888 479-6749 Fax (858) 566-0768 Web Site http://www.synergy-gps.com lat N 32.54' 43.9612 Lon W 117 06' 41.8060 Motorola's leading ONCORE GPS Distributor in the Americas --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Feb 14 20:58:59 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id UAA11926 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 20:58:59 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 21:56:10 -0500 From: "Tom Clark (W3IWI)" Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] RE: Motorola gps receiver References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <3A8B454A.5907FFDD@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Jim, W6SC asked about > COPYRIGHT 1991-1994 MOTOROLA, INC. > SOFTWARE VER #5 > SOFTWARE REV #0 > SOFTWARE DATE 20 JAN 1994 > MODEL# A11121A115 > SERIAL# SSG0038200 > MANUFACTUR DATE 350AMA129 > > @@Ba: OK - must be a 6-channel Rcvr 5.0 is an original PVT6. Version 5 was the first firmware Motorola released after Mirhan Miranian(USNO) and I worked with Mike King (Moto) to make a real timing receiver from their old "6-Pack". This one is a real antique that should be gold plated and hung from the rear view mirror along with the fuzzy dice and baby shoes! 73, Tom --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Feb 14 21:31:56 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id VAA15114 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 21:31:56 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 22:29:39 -0500 From: Boyd Prestwood K5YKG X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS Antennas References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3A8B4D23.2400767F@bellatlantic.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk "Dr Thomas A Clark (W3IWI)" wrote: > > Those of you who have an interest in precision GPS antennas might find a > paper by Schupler & Clark in the Feb.2001 GPS World, pages 48-55 of > interest. [In fact, you MUST find it of interest, since I'm one of the > authors.] How does one go about getting a subscription to GPS World? Is is a free trade magazine or can a paid subscription be obtained? Thanks for info. 73 de Boyd Prestwood, K5YKG k5ykg@bellatlantic.net --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Feb 14 22:47:50 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id WAA20044 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 22:47:48 -0600 (CST) From: info@synergy-gps.com To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:24:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [tacgps] RE: Motorola gps receiver Reply-to: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Message-ID: Priority: normal In-reply-to: List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <3A8AB148.27898.1FB36D0@localhost> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Jim, The 6 channel PVT-6 matches the part number you describe. The Motorola PVT-6 was originally shipped in a black plastic housing as were the later 6 and 8 channel Basic Oncore units. Your unit, at 3.94 in. x 2.76 in. x 0.7 in. is slightly larger than the later VP Oncore (at 3.25 in. x 2.00 in. x 0.64 in). All PVT-6 and Basic Oncore products included an on-board, automotive compliant regulator for operation from 9 VDC to 16 VDC (12VDC nominal). This unit could also operate from a regulated 5 VDC source (separate pin). Version 5.0 firmware included fixes, suggested by the then young, handsome, ever vigilant, yet to break a leg at ION, Dr. Tom Clark, which corrected some 1PPS to UTC offsets (in previous firmware versions). The "A" in the middle of the part number indicates 1PPS option. Timing Receiver Autonomous Integrity Monitor (TRAIM) was introduced later in version 8.4 of the firmware. I believe the product you have can be updated to version 8.4 firmware which includes TRAIM and other features. Randy Warner here (randy@synergy-gps.com) could confirm this but he's out today. If a firmware upgrade is possible, we'll perform the work at no charge for the 1st couple of units and $20 for additional units (this is an offer available to Hams only!). If Randy confirms that an upgrade is possible, we'll add Carrier Phase (GPS Raw Data) at no additional charge. We can fax (no PDF available) the Basic Oncore Engineering Notes (essentially the same as the PVT-6) on receipt of your fax number and address (which our electronic fax needs to function). Hope this helps. Thanks & Regards, Art Sepin K6IWS (CW freak, Ret) ----------------- Reply Separator -------------------- > I have a unit here that we have been calling a PVT-6 all > this time. I have it powering up as I type. TAC32 identifies > it as a Motorola VP, but I'm not sure TAC32 has the ability > to flag a PVT-6 anymore (Rick?). I think the older versions > used to ID a PVT-6. The version I'm using is 2.5 (TAC32). > I have another unit we also call a PVT-6 and I'll power it up > shortly. It has a completely different PC board layout so > I'm not sure what it will show. TAC32 gives the following > data about the one powering up now ... > > COPYRIGHT 1991-1994 MOTOROLA, INC. > SOFTWARE VER #5 > SOFTWARE REV #0 > SOFTWARE DATE 20 JAN 1994 > MODEL# A11121A115 > SERIAL# SSG0038200 > MANUFACTUR DATE 350AMA129 > > @@Ba: OK - must be a 6-channel Rcvr > > (other data omitted). > > So, I ask, is this a PVT-6? I think it is. > > 73, > Jim W6SC > > > > --- > Jim Johnson > Agilent Technologies > jim_johnson@agilent.com > "Innovating the HP Way" > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brooks Shera [mailto:ebs@lanl.gov] > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 7:41 PM > To: TAPR Special Interest Group > Subject: [tacgps] RE: Motorola gps receiver > > > Hi Brian et al. > > I have a couple of the "old" PVT-6 units that are at least 5 years old > and their parts numbers both start with PVT06 xxxxxx, so I would guess > Bonhorst's unit is not a PVT-6. Perhaps the best way to find out more > is to e-mail Randy Warner at Info@synergy-gps.com > . > > Brooks > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kirby, Brian > To: TAPR Special Interest Group > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 15:05 PM > Subject: [tacgps] RE: Motorola gps receiver > > > I looked on Synergy's site, the Motorola distributor for GPS in the > USA, its not listed. > > I am wondering if its the old PVT-6, a 6 channel timing/carrier phase > GPS unit.....Brooks might know.... > > ---------- > From: HBonhorst@aol.com[SMTP:HBonhorst@aol.com > ] > Reply To: TAPR Special Interest Group > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 3:32 PM > To: TAPR Special Interest Group > Subject: [tacgps] Motorola gps receiver > > part number is A11121P118 > its approx. 5 Years old. > Can somebody tell me more about this unit? > Where can I find the command reference? > Please help > Thank you in advance > Hubert, DB7ME > > Synergy Systems, LLC P.O. Box 262250, San Diego, CA 92196 Voice (858) 566-0666 Toll Free 888 479-6749 Fax (858) 566-0768 Web Site http://www.synergy-gps.com lat N 32.54' 43.9612 Lon W 117 06' 41.8060 Motorola's leading ONCORE GPS Distributor in the Americas --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Fri Feb 16 00:50:12 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id AAA11922 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 00:50:11 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: jim_johnson@agilent.com To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] RE: Motorola gps receiver Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 14:19:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Tom, Thanks for the positive ID on the unit. I'll put it next to my hoola hoop and penny loafers! 73, Jim W6SC > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Clark (W3IWI) [mailto:clark@aleph.gsfc.nasa.gov] > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 6:56 PM > To: TAPR Special Interest Group > Subject: [tacgps] RE: Motorola gps receiver > > > Jim, W6SC asked about > > > COPYRIGHT 1991-1994 MOTOROLA, INC. > > SOFTWARE VER #5 > > SOFTWARE REV #0 > > SOFTWARE DATE 20 JAN 1994 > > MODEL# A11121A115 > > SERIAL# SSG0038200 > > MANUFACTUR DATE 350AMA129 > > > > @@Ba: OK - must be a 6-channel Rcvr > > 5.0 is an original PVT6. Version 5 was the first firmware > Motorola released > after Mirhan Miranian(USNO) and I worked with Mike King > (Moto) to make a > real timing receiver from their old "6-Pack". This one is a > real antique > that should be gold plated and hung from the rear view mirror > along with > the fuzzy dice and baby shoes! > > 73, Tom > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: jim_johnson@agilent.com > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sun Feb 18 16:05:23 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id QAA11551 for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 16:05:23 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 14:05:07 -0800 From: "Eric G. Lemmon" X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] OCXO in GPS Frequency Standard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3A904713.8BEA3F2F@impulse.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I am building the GPS frequency standard designed by Brooks Shera and published in the July 1998 issue of QST. I have an HP 10811-60111 OCXO to use in the project. The manual I have, which actually pertains to the 10811A oscillator, states that the supply voltage to pin 3 should be 11.0 to 13.5 VDC. The suggested circuit, built around a 723 regulator chip, provides 12.0 VDC. However, my OCXO was delivered with the interface card 05328-20027, intended for the HP5328 universal counter. This card has a 723 chip on it, but the resistors which program the voltage are such that the expected (and actual) voltage is 10.8 VDC. It is possible that the OCXO interface card was originally designed and intended to support an HP10544A oscillator instead of the 10811A unit. Is there an actual difference in the operating voltages recommended for these two OCXOs? Moreover, should I run the 10811-60111 OCXO on 10.8 or 12.0 VDC? Thanks! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sun Feb 18 17:46:04 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id RAA19943 for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 17:46:03 -0600 (CST) From: "Roger Rehr W3SZ" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] RE: OCXO in GPS Frequency Standard Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 18:42:55 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <000301c09a04$84d56c60$0200a8c0@rrehr> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Eric! I am new at this and just finishing building my GPS controller, and also have a 10811A (with the 5328). I think the two units are identical for all practical purposes, but this is just what I have been told. Brooks Shera has a webpage that may help you some, though it doesn't address the above. Let me know if I can be of help, though it sounds like we're at about the same place ;) 73, Roger Rehr W3SZ ex AA3QK, WA3JYM FN20ah 2 Merrymount Road Reading, PA 19609-1718 http://www.w3sz.bizland.com/w3sz.htm -----Original Message----- From: bounce-tacgps-14699@lists.tapr.org [mailto:bounce-tacgps-14699@lists.tapr.org]On Behalf Of Eric G. Lemmon Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 5:05 PM To: TAPR Special Interest Group Subject: [tacgps] OCXO in GPS Frequency Standard I am building the GPS frequency standard designed by Brooks Shera and published in the July 1998 issue of QST. I have an HP 10811-60111 OCXO to use in the project. The manual I have, which actually pertains to the 10811A oscillator, states that the supply voltage to pin 3 should be 11.0 to 13.5 VDC. The suggested circuit, built around a 723 regulator chip, provides 12.0 VDC. However, my OCXO was delivered with the interface card 05328-20027, intended for the HP5328 universal counter. This card has a 723 chip on it, but the resistors which program the voltage are such that the expected (and actual) voltage is 10.8 VDC. It is possible that the OCXO interface card was originally designed and intended to support an HP10544A oscillator instead of the 10811A unit. Is there an actual difference in the operating voltages recommended for these two OCXOs? Moreover, should I run the 10811-60111 OCXO on 10.8 or 12.0 VDC? Thanks! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: rrehr@epix.net To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Sun Feb 18 21:15:08 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id VAA09277 for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:15:08 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: "Flemming Larsen" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] HP 10544A vs. 10811A Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 19:11:49 -0800 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <200102190311.TAA10563@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk The 10811A will replace a 10544A, but not the other way around. The 10544A requires a separate connection of 11.0-13.5 volts @ 10 mA typ., 15 mA max. on pins 8 (+) and 9 (gnd) for the oven control circuit. The 10811A draws a little more current for the oscillator/amplifier at 11.0-13.5 volts @ 30 mA typ., 40 mA max., vs. 18 mA typ., 25 mA max. for the 10544A, also specified at 11.0-13.5 volts. The 10811A oven circuit draws less power after warm-up, 2 W vs. 3 W for the 10544A, both at 20-30 volts. The 10811A/B manual mentions two other variants of the 10811A/B, the 10811-60101 and the 10811-60105, with slightly different spec's. I have the original data sheet (JUL 76) for the 10544A, and original data sheet (APR 80) and Operating and Service Manual (AUG 80) for the 10811A/B, if anyone needs additional information. -- Flemming Larsen, KB6ADS --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Feb 19 19:53:18 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id TAA13420 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:53:14 -0600 (CST) From: "Roger Rehr W3SZ" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: HP 10544A vs. 10811A Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 20:49:49 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <000601c09adf$69ab6a80$0200a8c0@rrehr> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Hi Eric, I think you are wrong about the interface card. I have the same card in the 5328 / 10811 combination I bought surplus, and everything works. So the card is meant to and does work with the 10811. 73, Roger W3SZ -----Original Message----- From: bounce-tacgps-14699@lists.tapr.org [mailto:bounce-tacgps-14699@lists.tapr.org]On Behalf Of Eric G. Lemmon Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 8:32 PM To: TAPR Special Interest Group Subject: [tacgps] Re: HP 10544A vs. 10811A I have the same manual, same edition, for the 10811A/B oscillator, and it looks pretty much like the 10811-60111 OCXO that I intend to use. I have verified that my OCXO has no connections at pins 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, and 13- and this agrees with the pinout diagram in Figure 3. I'd sure like to know what differences there are, if any, between my 10811-60111 oscillator and the 10811A described in the manual. I am pretty certain that the 05328-20027 interface card that came with my OCXO was designed for the 10544 rather than the 10811, since there are separate connections to pin 8 of the OCXO for oven control, and that pin is NC in the 10811. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY Flemming Larsen wrote: > The 10811A will replace a 10544A, but not the other way around. > > The 10544A requires a separate connection of 11.0-13.5 volts @ 10 mA typ., > 15 mA max. on pins 8 (+) and 9 (gnd) for the oven control circuit. > > The 10811A draws a little more current for the oscillator/amplifier at > 11.0-13.5 volts @ 30 mA typ., 40 mA max., vs. 18 mA typ., 25 mA max. for > the 10544A, also specified at 11.0-13.5 volts. > > The 10811A oven circuit draws less power after warm-up, 2 W vs. 3 W for > the 10544A, both at 20-30 volts. > > The 10811A/B manual mentions two other variants of the 10811A/B, the > 10811-60101 and the 10811-60105, with slightly different spec's. > > I have the original data sheet (JUL 76) for the 10544A, and original > data sheet (APR 80) and Operating and Service Manual (AUG 80) for the > 10811A/B, if anyone needs additional information. > > -- Flemming Larsen, KB6ADS > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: elemmon@impulse.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: rrehr@epix.net To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Mon Feb 19 23:39:42 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id XAA05313 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 23:39:42 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:32:08 -0800 From: "Eric G. Lemmon" X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: HP 10544A vs. 10811A References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3A91C918.2486845D@impulse.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk I have the same manual, same edition, for the 10811A/B oscillator, and it looks pretty much like the 10811-60111 OCXO that I intend to use. I have verified that my OCXO has no connections at pins 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, and 13- and this agrees with the pinout diagram in Figure 3. I'd sure like to know what differences there are, if any, between my 10811-60111 oscillator and the 10811A described in the manual. I am pretty certain that the 05328-20027 interface card that came with my OCXO was designed for the 10544 rather than the 10811, since there are separate connections to pin 8 of the OCXO for oven control, and that pin is NC in the 10811. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY Flemming Larsen wrote: > The 10811A will replace a 10544A, but not the other way around. > > The 10544A requires a separate connection of 11.0-13.5 volts @ 10 mA typ., > 15 mA max. on pins 8 (+) and 9 (gnd) for the oven control circuit. > > The 10811A draws a little more current for the oscillator/amplifier at > 11.0-13.5 volts @ 30 mA typ., 40 mA max., vs. 18 mA typ., 25 mA max. for > the 10544A, also specified at 11.0-13.5 volts. > > The 10811A oven circuit draws less power after warm-up, 2 W vs. 3 W for > the 10544A, both at 20-30 volts. > > The 10811A/B manual mentions two other variants of the 10811A/B, the > 10811-60101 and the 10811-60105, with slightly different spec's. > > I have the original data sheet (JUL 76) for the 10544A, and original > data sheet (APR 80) and Operating and Service Manual (AUG 80) for the > 10811A/B, if anyone needs additional information. > > -- Flemming Larsen, KB6ADS > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: elemmon@impulse.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Feb 20 00:29:40 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id AAA15514 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 00:29:39 -0600 (CST) X-pair-Authenticated: 64.154.187.119 Message-ID: Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: "Tom Van Baak" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [tacgps] Re: HP 10544A vs. 10811A Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 22:22:03 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <003501c09b05$72be74c0$77bb9a40@tlvb> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk > I'd sure like to know what differences there are, if any, between my > 10811-60111 oscillator and the 10811A described in the manual. The 10811A is the high-end unit with lots of tight specs. There are several variations of the 10811, denoted with -60xxx suffixes, most of which have relaxed specs. For example, - The 10811A has performance specs for magnetic and gravitational fields; the 10811-60111 drops these specs. - The 10811A has time domain specs from 1 ms to 100 s (e.g., 5E-12 at 1 s); the 10811-60111 has only a specification at 1 s (1E-11). - The temperature spec for the 10811A is given as <4.5E-9 (-55C to +71C) and <2.5E-9 (0C to 71C). The 10811-60111 is specified at only <7E-9 and only from 0 to 71C. All other specs, including aging, EFC range, and phase noise are the same between the two models. There are about a dozen other -60xxx variations all together. The -60111 seems the most common (often found in old HP frequency counters with option 01). I assume the logic behind this is that not all oscillators perform the same when manufactured and not all HP instruments need the same quality of oscillator. It reduces testing time and increases yield to have P/N variants such at the 10811-60111. /tvb --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Feb 20 01:34:49 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id BAA19836 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 01:34:47 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" From: "Flemming Larsen" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: HP 10544A vs. 10811A Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 23:33:36 -0800 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio X-Message-Id: <200102200733.XAA22924@falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Thanks Tom, This confirms what I already knew, but which I have never seen in print. My 10811A was possibly one of my best purchases on eBay. It came in a very handsome carrying-case, labelled: HP 435B-K26 FREQUENCY-POWER REFERENCE This is probably an item worth looking for at your local surplus store or local ham radio flea market. -- Flemming Larsen, KB6ADS ex. OZ6OI > -----Original Message----- > From: bounce-tacgps-17114@lists.tapr.org > [mailto:bounce-tacgps-17114@lists.tapr.org]On Behalf Of Tom Van Baak > Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 22:22 > To: TAPR Special Interest Group > Subject: [tacgps] Re: HP 10544A vs. 10811A > > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Tue Feb 20 10:12:47 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id KAA02789 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:12:47 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 16:11:48 +0000 From: Dr Thomas A Clark Organization: NASA/GSFC X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: GPS Antennas References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <3A929744.CC983310@tomcat.gsfc.nasa.gov> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Boyd Prestwood asked: > How does one go about getting a subscription to GPS World? Is is a free > trade magazine or can a paid subscription be obtained? Thanks for info. GPS World is a trade magazine that is free to "qualified subscribers" and (according to a recent bingo card) costs $64/year if you pay (I don't know anybody, outside of libraries who actually pays). You can go to their web page at http://www.gpsworld.com. If you want to try for a free subscription, fill out the form at URL https://www.advanstar.com/subscribe/gps/ 73, Tom --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Wed Feb 21 14:22:37 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id OAA23843 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 14:22:36 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Brooks Shera" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [tacgps] Motorola UT+ price reduction Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:04:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <002201c09c1f$ea0095c0$6400a8c0@brooksnotebook> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Art Sepin at Synergy (info@synergy-gps.com) informs me that price of the Motorola UT+ with battery has been reduced to $121.50 (this includes the ham/educational discount). It was formerly about $160. A good deal gets even better! The Motorola antennas have also been reduced in price. Brooks --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Thu Feb 22 04:40:52 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id EAA25399 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 04:40:52 -0600 (CST) From: "Roger Rehr W3SZ" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Re: HP 10544A vs. 10811A Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 01:20:47 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <000201c09c97$9915a060$0200a8c0@rrehr> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk HI Eric, I hooked up my 10811-60111 on the 05328-20027 interface card, in the 5328, as I indicated I would in email several days ago. Specifically, I removed the blue trimpot from the interface card, and ran the three connections from where the trimpot used to be over to the GPS controller through "Ra and Rb". I don't have the controller working yet, but with this arrangement I am able to control the frequency of the 10811 and the counter by varying Ra and Rb, just as it should be. So that is the way to do the interface: previous wiper connection of trimpot to wiper of Ra (this is pin 6 of the oscillator connector) previous top connection of trimpot to top of Ra (this is pin 8, or the 12V control voltage) previous bottom connection of trimpot (ground) Now if I can just get the controller itself ready to roll ;) That should be all you have to do, as we have the same oscillator and the same interface card; mine is in the 5328, so when Im done the counter should be REALLLY accurate ;) Hope that helps... 73, Roger Rehr W3SZ ex AA3QK, WA3JYM FN20ah 2 Merrymount Road Reading, PA 19609-1718 http://www.w3sz.bizland.com/w3sz.htm -----Original Message----- From: bounce-tacgps-14699@lists.tapr.org [mailto:bounce-tacgps-14699@lists.tapr.org]On Behalf Of Eric G. Lemmon Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 8:32 PM To: TAPR Special Interest Group Subject: [tacgps] Re: HP 10544A vs. 10811A I have the same manual, same edition, for the 10811A/B oscillator, and it looks pretty much like the 10811-60111 OCXO that I intend to use. I have verified that my OCXO has no connections at pins 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, and 13- and this agrees with the pinout diagram in Figure 3. I'd sure like to know what differences there are, if any, between my 10811-60111 oscillator and the 10811A described in the manual. I am pretty certain that the 05328-20027 interface card that came with my OCXO was designed for the 10544 rather than the 10811, since there are separate connections to pin 8 of the OCXO for oven control, and that pin is NC in the 10811. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY Flemming Larsen wrote: > The 10811A will replace a 10544A, but not the other way around. > > The 10544A requires a separate connection of 11.0-13.5 volts @ 10 mA typ., > 15 mA max. on pins 8 (+) and 9 (gnd) for the oven control circuit. > > The 10811A draws a little more current for the oscillator/amplifier at > 11.0-13.5 volts @ 30 mA typ., 40 mA max., vs. 18 mA typ., 25 mA max. for > the 10544A, also specified at 11.0-13.5 volts. > > The 10811A oven circuit draws less power after warm-up, 2 W vs. 3 W for > the 10544A, both at 20-30 volts. > > The 10811A/B manual mentions two other variants of the 10811A/B, the > 10811-60101 and the 10811-60105, with slightly different spec's. > > I have the original data sheet (JUL 76) for the 10544A, and original > data sheet (APR 80) and Operating and Service Manual (AUG 80) for the > 10811A/B, if anyone needs additional information. > > -- Flemming Larsen, KB6ADS > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: elemmon@impulse.net > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: rrehr@epix.net To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Thu Feb 22 09:33:38 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id JAA16739 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:33:36 -0600 (CST) From: "John K. Pringle" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Subject: [tacgps] Motorola UT+ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:32:36 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk Brooks, Would you consider the Motorola UT+ to be a good choice for timing purposes such as for use with your GPS controller? Thanks. John --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org From bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Thu Feb 22 12:47:22 2001 Received: from lists.tapr.org (lists.tapr.org [204.17.217.24]) by tapr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.13) with SMTP id MAA04082 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 12:47:21 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Brooks Shera" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" References: Subject: [tacgps] Re: Motorola UT+ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:45:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 List-Unsubscribe: List-Software: Lyris Server version 3.0 List-Subscribe: List-Owner: X-List-Host: Tucson Amateur Packet Radio Reply-To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" X-Message-Id: <000801c09cff$9db12640$6400a8c0@brooksnotebook> Sender: bounce-tacgps-6754@lists.tapr.org Precedence: bulk The best! ----- Original Message ----- From: "John K. Pringle" To: "TAPR Special Interest Group" Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 8:32 AM Subject: [tacgps] Motorola UT+ > Brooks, > > Would you consider the Motorola UT+ to be a good choice for timing purposes > such as for use with your GPS controller? > Thanks. > > John > > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: EBS@LANL.GOV > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org > --- You are currently subscribed to tacgps as: lyris.tacgps@tapr.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tacgps-6754G@lists.tapr.org